UNFILTERED | The Q&A Edition

Welcome to Unfiltered, the q and a edition. Today's session is about getting to the real questions, the ones that don't always make it into the slide decks or strategy documents. We'll be talking honestly about what really happens when it comes to digital transformation and ERP modernization, cloud readiness and clean core, and the transformation roadblocks many organizations face but don't often discuss. Joining me today are two people who work closely in this space every day, Yani Kotzia, who leads the SAP app house initiative at EPI-USE Labs. She combines technical expertise with a creative, human centered approach, helping businesses design solutions that are practical and make sense for people. And Andrew Barson, a technology executive with more than twenty five years of experience, leading SAP led transformations around the world. Andrew brings a wealth of experience from carve outs, consolidations, and greenfield implementations, and a clear pragmatic view on what really works. Together, they'll be answering the questions that we've received. And if something sparks a thought or if you would like to dig deeper throughout the session, feel free to drop your question in the chat and we'll try to cover as many as we can as we go. If we are answering one of your questions live this morning, please feel free to unmute yourself to engage with Jani and Andrew. So let's get started. So, Jani, I'm coming straight to you. One of the first questions we received was from Philip, and he wants to know who owns transformation? Is it, business, finance, or all of them? The simple answer here would be all of them. From our experience, if people from different points of the business work together, you just get a more holistic view and, you know, what you're working towards. With the design thinking sessions we've run-in the SAP AppHouse, we've seen that our group's based, and that's also the suggestions, that you have people from different departments, from IT, from finance, from HR, and support. All of these people bring a different perspective, and then together you can come up with a great solution. But that is, you know, who owns it, but and everybody should take ownership of it, but who drives it? There, I would suggest that you do select someone that can champion it because otherwise, you're gonna end up with a long list of great ideas and a bunch of sticky notes and no action from there. So that would be my answer. Yeah, and maybe if I add to that, Johnny, I think, you know, the danger in transformation is if there's a certain thing that RTC is a pet project, and you get this tail wagging the dog sort of scenario. So I think, you know, if you start with the business objectives being driven by the lines of business, whether it's finance or supply chain or whatever it might be, and then partnering with IT to enable it Because what I've often seen is you know, IT know they need to, let's say, modernize. They need to upgrade. They need to do all these things. They know they're good things, but without engaging with business, they really struggle to, in a sense, almost like convince the business of the business case that they need to move forward. And then you get sort of caught between a rock and a hard place, and I've seen that happen a lot. So and, yeah, that would be my response to that. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks, Jani, for those insights. Jani, I just wanna bring it back to you again as well. We also received a question from Michael. Is AI replacing traditional ERPs like SAP, Oracle, and Microsoft? No. They are not. That's also why AI is not taking our jobs just yet. So what we have here is that we see that the AI is enhancing what we have. You know? They are being baked into all these systems, but they're not replacing them. The AI agents that we have today, which is pretty much the cutting edge of AI technology, All of those agents and things all always use an underlying technology or platform to interact with. So it won't be able to manage all of that data and all of those processes and all of those things on its own. So at the moment, AI can enhance it. As you can imagine, dual being baked into, SAP, quite on a foundational level, but still, you know, it's not replacing. It's just enhancing. Yeah. And I think and it's maybe not specifically focusing on replacing, but SAP have been talking about the concept of a copilot like Juul becoming your new interface into the system. So from a training perspective, you're not you know, click here, click there, and move through a user interface, but you're interact through, you know, through voice commands or whatever. And the system or the agent knows where to go and get that data from because it's built up a knowledge graph of the, you know, of the data and processes within the, you know, the underlying ERP system. So, you know, at the moment, I think that feels like a bit of a pie in the sky kind of idea, but, you know, sort of get the concept where we may you know, we're already interacting with systems in different ways, you know, whether it's through, I don't know, wearable glasses in a warehouse or, you know, voice commands and things. I don't think that's something that hasn't been around for a while, but certainly it will become, you know, more near mainstream going forward. As well, you know, we have you currently. We received a question from Lisa as well, not necessarily on the AI side at all. But she wants to know how do you demonstrate to stakeholders that we are optimizing or modernizing, and how do you show the stats and the trends that are linked to this? Right. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for your question. I think the toughest of the lot, but I'll give it my best shot. So the way I like to think about this is, you know, first of all, start with what are the business objectives that you're trying to deliver on. Right? So as an IT organization, you've always got that in the back of your mind. You know? What are we trying to achieve? And then it's a case of saying, alright. How am I gonna measure that I've achieved it? And whether it's, you know, whether it's modernizing or optimizing, I need to have certain measures. And then on that basis, identify the KPIs in the system that I can manage? And we'll talk about tools in a moment, but maybe let's work through a few examples. So, you know, say if you say, right, for optimization, I want to be able to measure my business process efficiency, productivity, or, you know, let's say, cost saving initiatives, I might say, right, okay, by introducing digital workflows, let's say approving purchase orders on mobile, I'm going to reduce the processing time of POs, I'm going to free up x amount of staff hours. So we can then measure, you know, the number of people that are approving purchase orders on the new mobile app, for example, and use that as a basis around that. The same would go for cost saving, where we might say, alright, let's increase the amount of automation we have. Right? So therefore, we need to measure our automation rate. Let's take an example turning a purchase requisition into a purchase order. You know, if we could move those from manual task to automated tasks, how many hours do we free up on some basis? So we measure the KPI for automation rate of purchase requisitions, for example. You know, if we look at another example, in fact, this is a standard KPI that comes within an S4 system, and I know, obviously, we're not just talking about s four here, but invoicing processing time. You know, from the time the invoice comes into the time the payment happens, we can actually measure that and then obviously look at the trend. So that might be a way that we measure optimization, And even, like for example, you guys are using a system like Coupa, you could, by reducing that invoice processing time and paying your vendors early, where vendors offer early settlement discounts, you could measure the increased amount of discounts you're getting by increasing your invoice processing time. And then maybe just to think about modernization, you know, you could say, right, okay, I'm introducing a new modern application, you know, maybe it's a mobile app to do something. You know, I obviously used the example of PO approvals before. You could measure what is the adoption rate, you know, the number of users that are now engaging with this modernized application for doing that. And another one, another good example, I think, is in the reporting space. Right? How many users are now doing self-service reporting through the implementation of a more modern analytics platform? Right? So there's lots and lots of things we could do. You know, adoption of cloud versus legacy applications, how, you know, how we're putting legacy applications out to sunset, and even measuring, you know, reduced time to deploy applications. Right. So I guess I'm just trying to get the concept across of let's start with the business objectives, let's identify how we measure them, and then let's make sure we can measure them. Now in an s four space, one of the ways we can do that is by using, obviously, Signovio, which I guess would be the most sophisticated way of measuring all those sort of efficiency KPIs. And the other one could be Cloud ALM, which also allows you to do it not as extensive as Syncnabio, but in an SAP space, Cloud ALM is very good at some of the business process monitoring. All right, so I hope I've given some examples there. I'd love to engage with you further on this. Well, Flaim, unless you want to come back at me now to respond? Thanks, Andrew, for all those insights. And, yeah, if Lisa is on currently, hopefully, that does, answer your question. Andrew, just sort of keeping it in your court, as well, Yagnesh would like to know, for those that are migrating to s four from ECC, what data archiving approaches are available? Yeah. That's a great question. And it's often a big challenge with, you know, certainly large retail databases and things like that. So I guess the first thing is what is the definition of archive? Is it to be able to retrieve, or is it actually to get rid of so that you, you know, actually delete and have a smaller s four system? Alright? So if you are looking to, you know, get rid of, you know, let's say delete or reduce the amount of data that you've got so that you don't spend as much on the an in memory database, There's various archiving tools where you can extract the data and assist it in those tools to, you know, to then be able to retrieve in a pretty decent way. So Archive Central, for example, is one of the solutions we have EPI-USE Labs. There are others in the market as well. And that's literally for a sunsetting scenario. You know, we take it out. We put it in there, particularly finance information, and you can report on it, you know, get back, look at your journals, etcetera, etcetera. But it's not going to be directly connected to the ERP. So if we're talking about traditional SAP archiving, in other words, sort of push it out to an optical, you know, file storage but still be able to access it, you know, we don't see a lot of that happening these days. One, because the cost of disks is you know, has come down tremendously over the years, but, also, it tends not to have a good business case. Meaning, the effort to get your archiving done, and then you find you've got orphan transactions, it's seldom very successful. So then one of the other things you can consider if you've got a very large environment is selected data transition as part of your s four project where you create a it's a target s four system, which may just be a shell of your existing environment with the same configuration, and then you selectively go and pull the data, the company codes, you know, whatever it is that you want from that system and put it into your new s four system. Now that typically is the approach that would be recommended when you have such a large database that your downtime to do a brownfield conversion would just be, you know, off the charts in terms of a long weekend or whatever the case may be. Alright. I hope that was helpful. Do feel free to come back. Thanks, Angie. Thanks, Yagnesh. Hopefully, that answers your question as well. And, we've got another question that we have just received from Daniel. How do you deal with old data synchronisation errors, the CVI, with business partners and ECC, especially when the number ranges are different? Okay. That's a really good question, Daniel. So the first thing look, I mean, you may obviously, I know you guys are sort of, you know, starting your journey, so you've probably started investigating it now. The first thing is to try and do the mapping between your existing customers and vendors and your new business partner number ranges. Now typically, you would try and align it, you know, one for one or, you know, exactly the same. But, of course, if you have overlaps, you have to make a choice. Right? So in other words, if your vendors are in the number range, you know, one zero onwards, but your customers are overlapping with that, you're going to have to make a choice. I'm either going to keep the vendor numbers the same on the BP or I'm going to keep the customer numbers the same. Right? So you do that mapping. You make sure all the fields are populated. You know, I'm not sure specifically what synchronization errors you're talking about here, but it could be, one, because your mapping configuration has got overlapping number ranges, which it obviously can't have. And then the other consideration is if you've got customers and vendors that are separate numbers in ECC, but, actually, they're the same entity. And, therefore, in the target environment, you only want them to become one BP with two roles, but you're a customer role. In that scenario, there's a particular OSS note that you can implement and run to combine those into one BP to and then not have those synchronization errors. Again, I'm just surmising here that the synchronization errors could also be due to the fact that you are missing mandatory fields where the BP requires additional fields to be populated. Right. But I know we've had a few engagements with you guys, and we'd be very happy to take it further or discuss it in more detail. Just, you know, just reach out to me. Thanks, Andrew. And, passing it over to Yani. This has been asked by Tabo. He would like to know, we are not in the cloud yet. Which AI options are available to us? That's a great that's a question we have that comes up quite a lot at the moment seeing that people are there are still a lot of, SAP clients on Pray or Lisa, on the cloud, if you wanna put it like that. SAP has made it very clear that all the NICE model in the AI things that they are pushing out are for their cloud fly clients. So it's not gonna be nice, just other things like that you will get if you're non retail, but it does it in your stack. SAP does have a couple of things available for your on prem systems or let's say your S4 self hosted or on prem systems. These are not the nice new AI, generative AI kind of things that you'd have in mind. It's more old school machine learning kind of AI that you would get there. So you would be able to do trend analysis, predictions, those kind of things out of the box. However, if you do want any of the new generative AI kind of things, you can do a little bit more heavy lifting to get. So either you will, you know, develop something in house or get a partner to develop an AI thing for you hosted on BTP, and you'll need to write something that reads and writes data to your SAP system to make sure that, you know, you can either read the data or if you need to put anything back, write the data there as well, and an interface somewhere that you can interact with this system. So those things you will have to build from scratch. You don't get the out of the box experience there. Now there are some solutions available, things that we've been working on as well. We do have System forty two, which is our own enterprise ready agentic system, and we've connected that to SAP Data, and we've used it very successfully together. So in that case, you know, if you use an out of the box or you create a thing, you don't need to go and build in all of the guardrails and things like that, which is a really difficult part to do. There's already something that's tried and tested, enterprise ready for you and you encrypt your data to that. So there's definitely options for you, but the point is just a little bit more heavy lifting than just switching on or activating jewel in your system. But, also, you can get exactly what you want and need. It doesn't mean that the out of the box solutions available for SAP will cover what you want at the moment. So it provides you that flexibility, and you can still start innovating now. It doesn't mean you need to stop. And if you create these AIs in the correct way, if you do go to the cloud, then you can still, you know, make small changes so you can still use those systems. So even if you're not in the car, start using AI now because everybody else is. I think also just to add on to that, you did a really great session. I think it was back in July where you looked at the of not moving to the cloud. And, Tabool, there's a really fantastic overview in terms of the AI angle, in terms of, you know, the pros and cons of being on the cloud and on prem with regards to that. Definitely have a look at that. Ioannis, just keeping it on your side as well, we received a question from Beatrice. She would like to know, is SAP ready for the legal repercussions that AI may bring? Nobody is. So I think AI is very new. It's a very new field. We see all of these different lawsuits and things popping up, things in our area that you would not even might have considered at the start of this new era. But I do think your bigger enterprise companies try to put all of the right things in place. They put guardrails in place. It's more of that enterprise ready solution that you have, and then they always, always come with a disclaimer like, This is your AI. You've paid a lot for it, but you still need human validation in some cases and so forth. So it might be there to make your job easier, but not take over your job because you still need to make sure that this is correct. And we're not forgiving. You know, when people make a stage, we're like, oh, it's okay. Next time they'll do better. If AI makes mistakes, it's you know, we are very tough on them. We expect like a hundred percent, and the kind of AI that we're dealing with here in terms of generative AI, it's not perfect. You know, it makes mistakes as well. Sometimes silly mistakes, but still mistakes. That's why it's so dangerous and why the company providing this as a service can get into trouble quite easily. So I do think they put the right things in place. For instance, when you use the SAP AI core, you can go and make sure that it masks the BII information before it sends it off to an LM to interpret and make decisions and then come back and it will unmask that data for you. So SAP is putting things like this in place to, you know, these guardrails to guard themselves as well, but also their clients. So I don't think everybody is ready for all the legal repercussions, but they're putting the right things in place. And if you use an enterprise grade solution, you are minimizing the risks that's there. Andrew, anything from your side with regards to this question? I think Ioannis covered it very well. I mean, I guess the one thing I'd say is with SAP's models where they've, let's say, learned the data that's in the s four database, I guess, their knowledge of that library, the chances of AI hallucinations, I guess, is reduced, right, as opposed to just, you know, also sort of unvalidated information. But, yeah, certainly something that I guess we're gonna see more of over time. Thanks, Beatrice, for that question. I've a question for both of you. And, Jani, if you don't mind kicking it off. Candace would like to know how do we keep innovating at speed without breaking our people, our systems, or our budgets? Candice, I like the fact that you start with, you know, not breaking your people because that's kind of the most important part when, you know, change management comes in. I think for me people, that's also the most important part. I think if you get their buy into what you're working towards, that's the best place to start because if people believe in what you're building out and if they can benefit from it, then the change would be good. And they would be happy with the change and not get, you know, change fatigue because things are changing so rapidly these days. But if you and then also to get that buy in from them and to make sure that they benefit from it. You know, involve the people from the start. Get their opinions. Get their pay points. Understand and really make a change in their life because you can maybe throw another system, a new system at them, and all that might do for them is put them behind in their work because they need to train on this new system and figure out how the stuff works and the processes are maybe not what they're used to. It can very easily break people. So that's why involving them from the start and ensure that they benefit from it, that would be quite important there. And then I think if we look at, let's say, our budgets, the budgets coming different. You need to look at it in different ways. There are gonna be change in when, you know, you're modernizing or you're innovating. It might not be for the detriment of your budget. It might be beneficial for it as well. So but to make sure that it is, you know, you need to have the monitoring tools in place so that you don't overspend. Especially on the consumption models that might be available in some cases, it is quite easy to overspend. I think that might be a reason also why SAP changed it to a more user based pricing model. I think people feel safer when they can see this is how much it's going cost me, to know it can grow to how much I use system. So having the right monitoring tools in place and understanding the costing models is quite an important part in that. I think if you stick with clean core principles in the SAP world as well, you know, it can save you a lot of time and money if you use things that are there readily available from SAP as long as it does really provide a benefit to you. And the last thing I would say is, especially if you go to more in the custom implementation or custom solutions that you want to do, is start with a small project. Start with something that you can see how much it will cost. So if you're doing your first AI project internally or with a bot there, start with something small. Make sure that there's the adoption that you want. Make sure that they are using the services that you're paying for and what the actual cost of implementing a project like this is. And then you can grow to your little bit bigger projects. I think that's that's quite important. And, Andrew, I'm going to hand over to you to maybe talk about the systems because you have a lot of experience in, you know, not breaking the systems with the old E's innovations. Yeah. Thanks, Johnny. And maybe just to add another point about budget first. A lot of this new tech is not cheap, and it's quite difficult sometimes to get away from the idea that IT is just a cost. Right? And it comes back to Lisa's around, you know, how do I monitor the benefit of modernisation, the efficiencies, and all that kind of stuff. So we have to have better ways of measuring the value and outcome. Otherwise, all we do is talk about cost, which of course we want to mitigate, but we want to modernise in order to provide great value, customer satisfaction, increase efficiencies, be competitive in our markets. If we're not doing that, there's kind of no point, right? Might as well stone pastel. But so I guess that's the one point I'd say is, you know, let's get better at measuring the value of what we're bringing. We know so many AI projects fail, it's often because people do AI for the sake of it. Okay. What am I trying to achieve? What benefit, am I trying increase my customers' experience interacting with us? Or what is it? Then as far as systems is concerned, how do we innovate without breaking our systems? So what causes systems to break? Well, lots of technical debt, old systems legacy, lots of custom code. Whenever I make a change, it's very difficult to get that through to production without significant testing and costs associated with it. So I guess what I would do is I would say, as you start moving more towards the cloud, you are able to innovate faster without breaking the system. So if we take Sfour, for example, let's look at SAP Cloud ERP, the public edition, right? We actually run that solution. The upgrades are automatic, you know, a few times a year in the past year. So those have been well tested, you know, by the provider. It's only one code line. It's not your code line, my code line, Nexcar's code line. It's one simple code line. So there's no doubt that the cloud makes it easier to innovate. And then we just, you know, we can just then adopt those new features at our own pace according to, you know, how we want to manage that change. So, yeah, it's just, Jani spoke about key core principles. If we stick to key core principles so that our ERP system in the middle doesn't constantly be chained, again, it makes for less disruptive upgrades. So I think in the short answer is as you move more towards cloud systems, you've got more chance of managing that innovation without breaking the system. Thanks, Andrew, for those insights. And I wanna hand it back, over to Jani. It's a question we received, yesterday from Tim. He would like to know why do most companies think that outsourcing or basis support is a cost effective solution? We see that's creeping up a little bit more, I think, this side. So, you know, I think traditionally, if you had your the SAP landscape, it just made sense for you to have your dedicated team. They look out to your systems, they make sure everything is running. They know the inner workings and all of those things there. Right? So that is traditionally it just made sense, and that's how most companies did it. Moving into the cloud solution, I do think that or in the cloud solutions and BTP and BDC and all of the AI things that you have now from the SAP side, it does change your ads just a little bit and also depends on the company. If you do have a big company also with a bunch of SAP systems, be it systems even or your on prem systems, whichever it might be, BTP and so forth, it might still make sense for you to have a base team. Outsourcing is aimed for a team that is fully utilized. It's probably better for you to have it because you don't have to add a margin on those people that you get to manage your systems. But if you're a smaller company or you're really moving to the cloud, maybe then there might be a scenario where you would rather use, you know, an external company. Because they've been spending some of the time. They know the latest tech. There's an upskilling needed from your side. They already have the answers. You know? They have the knowledge to manage the processes really greatly. There might also be the fact that some of the cloud instances are more lightweight to manage. You know? It's there's no upgrades and transports, especially you're looking at public cloud. It's just they're gonna up grade your system for you. It's like your SuccessFactors system. You will get the latest release from them. So the workload might also be a little bit less in terms of these new cloud systems. And in that case, if you don't want full time employees that specifically manages those systems for you, in those cases, it might make sense to outsource it. So it is a hundred percent depending on your company, I will say. Thanks for that, Jani. I know Tim wasn't able to join us today, but he was very keen on hearing that answer. So thank you so much for that. And we have a bit of a sneaky surprise for both of you, a bit of a rapid fire round of questions, but we actually received two last minute questions this morning that we haven't included here. So, Andrew, I'm gonna put you a bit in the hot seat before we start with the rapid fire. This question is from Marita. She wants to know, is S4HANA migration and data migration strategies? Brownfield, Greenfield, what are the risks and what are the benefits? Sure. Okay. So that's a question which, you know, you could take half an hour to answer, but I'll go for quick one. So the first port of call I typically approach a conversion is to say, Is there a reason why brownfield won't work? So brownfield typically is lower risk and you've got less to think about with data because it remains in the system. You upgrade it and if you keep it on the, let's call it, on the most technical side of the continuum between technical and business transformation, you can limit the change management. Just implement the S4, what I call, mandatory functional adaptation. And so you keep it, you know, nice and clean. You get onto your innovation platform, and then you start to roll out in a more manageable way, right, with, you know, perhaps by department and so on. Now if you have a monster system, and I know a lot of retailers have an issue with this, it's just too much data, so they have to think about other options. Okay? So when you think about those other options, you could either say, all right, let's do a selected data transition and just pull out the data that we need into a new environment. Or you might say, well, you know, our processes are so archaic, we rather want to start again and consider greenfield. Now greenfield, of course, means you're coming back to the drawing board, you are aligning your processes with SAP best practice, which means the project will be longer, typically four months, four to five months longer than a normal brownfield, which could be eight to nine. It's going to require a lot of change management and training as part of that. So I guess that would be greenfield, particularly if you go to the far end and say SAP Cloud ERP, which is the public cloud edition, that's an awesome place to end up. But you've got to go through that change management to get there. Once you're there, your cost of maintaining it is going to be a lot lower, etcetera, etcetera. It is quite an over. So what we typically do in the first instance with the client is we'll do an assessment of their environment and then possibly move on to a proof of concept, we copy the system and we do a brownfield and we say, okay, technically, we've proven you can do it, or actually, these are blockers, this is chaos, let's rather start from scratch and do a greenfield. So it is horses for courses. There's no one size fits all, but the vast majority, I would say, just well, not the vast majority. I'd say on the side of maybe sixty, I'd say do brownfield and then the others that are that have an appetite for the transformation that comes with greenfield with you know, which is a greenfield. Thanks for that, Andrew and Marita. Hopefully, that answers your question. Jan, I'm gonna also put you in the hot seat with a last minute question that we received. This one is, from Leanne. She wants to know, should all modernization have digital transformation? No. They do seem to go hand in hand. You know, you're modernizing things and technology is typically in there, but I think you might have processes in your company that is outdated and you can modernize those processes without throwing technology at it. If you look at the AI thing and we're talking a lot about it today because it is so crucial, you know, it feels like people might have a hammer and they're looking for a nail and that shouldn't be the case. Shouldn't take the technology drive necessarily. Look at your processes, look at what you want to improve, and then you look at how you're going to improve it. And if technology makes sense there, then sure, you add it to there. It is a it's a big part of modernization, but it's not always your answer. Thank you for those, really, unique insights. And I wanna sort of put you both now in the hot seat for a little bit. We've got a few rapid fire questions that we would like to, ask you. Obviously, the idea is to answer them comprehensively but as quickly as possible. So I'm gonna kick off with the first one, and, Andrew, this one is specifically for you. Can I move my current ECC environment with all its custom code into an SAP private cloud environment? So, yes, you can. It was something that initially I thought you couldn't and you had to go to best practice, but I have seen this done with the clients. So you can go across, take what you've got, you know, refine it over time and introduce the best practices as you go. But yes, you're fairly flexible on that front. We also want to know and this is also another one with regards to SAP Private Cloud Why do SAP Private Cloud projects typically take longer than public cloud ones? So I'd say, you know, there's obviously because you're now hosting it with SAP, there's an interaction that takes place between, let's say, the partner or client team and SAP. So it tends to be a little bit more overhead in those sort of communications and interactions. The other thing is, you know, clients that move to a private cloud scenario generally do it because they're wanting more flexibility. Perhaps they've got complex integrations. They're just not willing yet to take the leap, let's say, to ultra standardisation around the public cloud scenario. So typically, those projects tend to be more complex. Public cloud, you know, it's like you know, it's not as inflexible as a lot of people think, but the point is you can start with something that's pretty straight out of the box, ready to go, quickly configured with a lot of the accelerate. So those projects tend to be, you know, a lot quicker, you know, depending on how many of entities could be six months, could be a bit more. And, Andrew, your third rapid fire question, can I continue running my SAP ECC payroll and core HR systems if I upgrade my finance system to S4HANA? So, yeah, this is a question that comes up a lot. So if your HCM system is separate from your, let's call it, core finance ECC system, then, yes, you're able to leave it, I think, until twenty thirty in the current scenario to kind of buy you some time before, let's say, moving to SuccessFactors. If your HCM payroll is in the same environment as your S4 environment or your Finance S4, you can upgrade it at the same time, but you have to acquire some additional licenses for H4S4 to continue using it for a period. And then if you move into a private cloud scenario with SAP, then you move on to a RISE contract to take that with you. And if you move to public cloud, well, then you have to use SuccessFactors. So that's kind of all the different options that you have. But, yes, you can kinda leave it behind for a period if you need to. And then, Andrew, your last rapid fire question from our side. What does a full user equivalent mean in SAP licensing? Okay. So a full user equivalent or an FUE is what is used in the SAP private cloud environment. Okay? It used to be public as well, but they since changed public to a per user per month now model. And so in FUE, a full user equivalent is equal to one professional user. Alright? And then one full user equivalent is equal to five, what they call, productivity users. So that's like an in between user, someone that, I don't know, let's say, is doing inventory management or projects, you know, project management and that sort of thing. And then your typical self-service user, which they now call what is it like? Yeah. They actually call it a self-service user. You can consume fifty of those for one FUE. Alright? So it's just a relationship of one to one for professional, one to five for a productivity user, and one to fifty for a self-service. Jani, I think, if you're thinking that you weren't gonna get out of this, that's true. We've got two questions for you. Is there an easy way to migrate projects from Neo to Cloud Foundry in SAP BTP? An unfortunately not. We've been talking to a lot of our clients at the moment about that, and the problem is that it would take a big effort to move what you have there over to your Cloud Foundry environment. It's a bit of a rewrite that you're looking at. But what we've done lately, it's with all the agent systems that we have, is we have a software expert AI system working together with an AI coding system to basically take what you have and port that over with you know, by reducing the effort quite a lot. So we can you can do it faster than it was, let's say, available a year ago I'm now with your new agents available to you. Jani, your last rapid fire question from our side. How do you decide which SAP BTP contract type to choose? Subscription, enterprise agreement, or pay as you go? Yeah. That's that's quite a that's a bit friction because, it will make a big difference for anybody who, you know, is looking at these different comp models. And the easiest way for it is to say, if you have something that is long term predictable, you know that something is running and it's going to be there for a long while, subscription might be your answer. If there's something that you're experimenting with, there's variable word choice, you don't know how many people are going to use it or for how long, those kind of projects, I would say go for the pay as you go. But keep in mind, the pay as you go is about thirty percent more expensive than your other contracts that is there. And then for your enterprise agreement, if you have a then you'll have a BTP instance and you have a bunch of credits, and you can use it as, you know, as you see fit because then you can do something and change those credits and use it in another way, for instance. So it a hundred percent depends on your I wanna say your company, but more on your project because you can have multiple different contract tops depending on what you wanna do. So it really depends. Just look at just know that there are different options, and you can pick the one that would work for you that would work best for you. Thanks, Eoni. I know there's always a lot of questions around, you know, the BTP credits, and I know you put a guide together as well for that. So very much, happy to share that with everyone on the call today. Obviously, very conscious in terms of time and finishing off before for lunchtime. And so thank you so much for joining us. Obviously, we do wanna keep the conversation going, but, hopefully, today's session has kinda given you a real unfiltered look at some of the challenges and opportunities in some of the topics that we've chatted about today. If something has definitely sparked your curiosity or if you would like to discuss potentially next steps or other topics, we do invite you to book, a free one hour advisory call with either Jani or Andrew. It really is a great opportunity to discuss any of your specific challenges, get some tailored advice, and talk through some practical ways forward. Of course, we will share their contact detail details with you as well. We'll also be sharing the recording of today's session, so please feel free to revisit the discussion, pass on any additional questions that you have. Jani, Andrew, thank you so much for going through all of those questions with us today. Thank you for surviving the hot seat as well. We really do appreciate those rapid fire questions. Until next time as well, feel free to connect with us after this session, and we look forward to hosting you soon. Enjoy the rest of the day.